The Signal | Mental health in a time of wildfires
Thursday, August 14th. I am Adam Walsh and this is The Signal. Today on the show, we are talking about stress, anxiety, trauma in a time of wildfires. How to process it all and the feeling right you have right now. You’re not alone with that. We’re going to talk about this uh plus updates and impacts for on wildfires. All right, here we go. We’re off and running on the show today. Continued um wildfire coverage and what we’ve been trying to do and what we’ve been doing all week. We uh try to get voices, local voices, uh voices sometimes in other places. We talked to folks who were impacted to get updates and then we we try to kind of make a different shift on uh themes. Um we did it last week as well. So today as you you just heard right I’m talking mental health. Before we get into it I I will say just looking at um the weather right two weather alerts air quality warning heat warning uh from Environment Canada. Central northeastern eastern Newfoundland as well as the northern Avlon Peninsula. Uh max temperatures today near 28°. So then when if you tuned into the show last week and I talked about uh the climate shift index global map from climate central. So if you Google climate shift index uh you’ll find it for today in St. John’s August 14th 2025. The climate shift index is five meaning climate change made the daily average temperature at least five times more likely. And as I’ve also said on this show, world weather attribution, which you can also look up, key messages on heat, and Ashley Brawler was in here yesterday talking about the heat dome. Every heat wave in the world is now made stronger and more likely to happen because of human caused caused climate change. We’re talking carbon pollution. Uh and it has it always has a point of note and caution with this on these messages from world weather attribution. And the point of note and caution is don’t be too cautious. heat waves are unilaterally linked to global warming. So there you go. Just it it just a reminder and it’s really it it it’s stuff you can look at and look up and just check out, right? Climate shift index and also if you want to look up world weather attribution. Uh this is all the stuff that I’m kind of running into and learning about as part of the uh Oxford Journalism clim uh journalism climate network that I’m part of up until uh uh December. Uh you know, global journalists around the world. I’m part of 100 learning about climate change and uh this summer uh you know gosh here we are Janine Hubard is here registered psychologist um I guess we’ll talk about normally I’d say the elephant in the room in this case it’s the doggy in the room can you tell us who is if like there’s there’s a painting in the corner to who is it and uh let’s let’s talk about it there is and I’ll share that uh once we’re done today for the first time ever um I got an interview request yesterday from Adam and I said sure I’m happy to come in studio so long as somebody can keep an eye on my dog. Um, which is not a normal request for me to make or for you to receive. We’ve been on the show a lot. We’ve I’ve interviewed you a lot over uh uh you know as the years tick by. Um, so why is that this time if you don’t mind telling me? Well, I’m a resident of Paradise. So, I have been on evacuate evacuation watch since Monday night. Um the evacuation alert actually came way closer to my house than um you know is terribly comfortable. I’ll be honest. I was scrambling and a friend was scrambling looking at maps going do I have to leave now? Um but it has meant um and given a good appreciation for I can come into town. Absolutely. There’s lots of stuff that I can do, but I have an elderly and, you know, high needs dog um who can’t be left at home cuz I couldn’t get back back together and it is way too hot to be leaving a dog in, you know, the car. I sort of said the same. It’s probably the same for a lot of single parents that yeah, I can come, but I have a kid that somebody needs to hang out with for a little bit. So, Lola is having a nap right now here in the radio studio. Uh I was speaking to Lola earlier. uh told me things are rough. Uh I was like, “Yeah, no, they are Lola. So there you go. Take take a little rest and we’ve got some water and snacks and uh Lola likes to bark, which is fine. You know, this is the situation we’re in.” And if Lola becomes very conversational, Arlette may take Lola for a little walk. But uh this is the reality of where we are and and why I wanted to talk about Lola being here and thanking you to come in to talk about the fact that uh I keep so the things I keep hearing from whether it’s you my family or neighbors or friends there’s a couple things it’s a as without the rain uh things are crunchy crispy when they walk and then it’s this thing about folks being on edge obviously right obviously and and the range of on edge so if you are uh if you an alert if you have had to leave your home, right? If you’re in in in a center waiting, even if you’re just in town and getting all the smoke. I mean, we’ve been lucky out there. We might have been on alert, but the smoke was blowing the other direction. Yeah, I know. The other night uh my wife and I watching uh television and next thing you know in through and and we’re down in Kitty Vidy and it’s just this especially wood smoke where it’s always such in Newf Finland and Labrador wood smoke is such a comfort in my experience it’s such a comforting smell uh growing up and also as someone who was houseburned as a kid still got through that and still find wood smoke to be comforting. Um, just talk to me about just Oh, yeah. Talk about all this. Interesting. Well, and it’s interesting because and I normally associate helicopters with search and rescue or medevac. And can I tell you the sound of choppers right now going back and forth and back and forth is the most soothing, reassuring sound. Um, it’s that’s a new association, right? Well, and upstairs the rain. We had a conversation in the newsroom, too, because there like right now in St. John’s looking outside, there’s some dark clouds over here. Um, and Karen Pauls is down. uh CBC Network reporter uh sent an email to everyone saying we’re driving through rain. I actually felt it was emotional actually when I saw that because of what just where we are. Oh, listen. I think when we finally get it, I’m just going to go stand out in the lawn and I know. Yeah, it’s because it it so so what I can How do we start like how do we process this stuff? Well, it’s funny and I was talking to Jen on the morning show earlier in the week. I’ve spoken on this topic so many times. I know the literature. I know the research like I know all of the general advice. This is the first time I have lived it acutely and I have a very different appreciation. Um not that I didn’t before it but there is something um I think in particular what you start to see is you know that hyper vigilance um that because you are constantly looking for new news. Are we going to get an alert? Are we going to get an update? What’s happening? And for at least the first day or so, that led to a lot of social media scrolling, which even though I keep preaching, don’t do that. Um, at the time, that was kind of my only way of being reassured that I knew what was going on. I hate to say it, but the evacuation alert was the best thing possible cuz then I was like, well, I can’t sleep through that, so if anything happens overnight, I am going to hear about it. Maybe I can relax a little bit more. But just that I said I nearly jumped out of my skin when my phone alarm went off that I had set and forgotten that I’d said it. So the disrupted sleep I joked the other night I had I I knew I got a little bit of sleep cuz I had a bit of a nightmare and then I kind of was semi- lucid saying I see glowing light coming through the curtains. Oh no. Then I realized it was the street light. But this is where we are right. uh that thing of on edge kind of amped up like things are working in overdrive. Easy to tear up, easy to get angry, like whatever your default emotional kind of reaction is. But also just the typical people have not been sleeping. It is so hot and a lot of people, you know, haven’t been able to use like air conditioners if they even had them. The windows have had to be closed. So the heat, the smoke, like that all has a physical effect on us that is likely to put us more on edge. I mean, there’s ton, you know, again, I’ve talked about that before. So add all of that on to the kind of the perfect storm. And so I want to really normalize that, you know, in kids the stress is going to look a little different. Like it’s going to look different from all of for all of us. and also some of the normal coping strategies. You and I have talked about that like whether it’s going for a run outdoors. Uh thank you. Just let’s wait one little second there uh Dr. Hubard because the other thing we’re doing on the on the show today everyone is we’re doing some check-ins on on everyone and we’ve got Chief Brad Benois of Meapek First Nation on the line. I wanted to get in touch. Uh Chief, how are folks in Mapukek doing today? I’m uh I’m busy. I’m very busy. and then run around. Yeah. Yeah. No, I I appreciate you taking a couple minutes like so the highways closed. What What are like for you’ve got there’s an operation center set up there. What What are uh what’s happening in Con River Mapek for for helping people in the community for what’s happening right now? We’re just monitoring our supplies and keep an eye on a few levels. Um we’ve had arrangements to get supplies here. There’s some some confusion there on the go, but we’re working through that now. uh some essential supplies, pampers, um baby formula, um things like that that we usually don’t have in the community, a whole lot in the community to begin with. We’re trying to get that here. And uh we’re we’re like I said, we’re always planning for the worst just in case. We don’t want to be be caught caught in a bad situation. So, we’re preparing for like if we have to evacuate or just taking stock of how many boats we have in the community in the community just in case, but god forbid that we we we do have to evacuate the community. I mean, this isn’t the first time you’ve gone through this. What have you learned over the last few years of just how to prepare uh from other times? And I um in 2022 when we had the fire first, I wasn’t actually chief, but I was on council and I think we learned a nice bit about it. Uh it’s just what do we have in the community as in for stock like for supplies and stuff like that. We learn what we what we have here. So that’s a bit more faster faster figuring out. Yeah. I mean to go from 2022 and that that learning lesson and now here we are, you know, again the highway is closed, but you you’re talking about okay, we’re looking at boats, we’re looking at supplies, we’re talking about cons preserving fuel. Uh how’s the healthc care situation for for like I know people can’t get to their appointments if if things are closed but is there any uh emergency healthcare needed right now or how’s it looking? We have we actually have tree MPs in the community so they can take take care of that. I do believe the province has uh arranged for to be lifted by helicopter if anything any big emergencies but as in stuff in their community we could deal with a fair bit. Is there anything else that’s needed in the community or anything else uh you think folks should know about what’s going on? Uh just the the thing is communication seems to be a broken thing there now for us where we’re getting updates and everything but we’re not directly communicating with. It’s getting confusing. We just had an issue with our supplies. So uh that that that’s frustrating to me. Yeah. So that when you say communication with the provincial government Yes. Well, I’ve been uh communicating with our MHA. He’s been good, but it seems like there’s missing somewhere. Okay. So, yeah, you’re you’re you’re asking uh for the you’ve got the MHA there, but when it comes to like the higher up level when it’s ministers and some of that communication, you would like more of a a direct line of communication for what is happening and how you are responding to uh this the highway being closed off and the wildfire and at this point in time for uh what is happening. Yes, absolutely. Okay. Uh well, that message is out. Um if there’s anything else, uh that if you need to get anything else out there, uh chief, if there’s any other part of a conversation, please get back in touch with us. Uh we’re here. Thank you so much. I’m sorry for the the rush here. Like I said, I’ve been very busy just trying to figure things out and but I appreciate your time. Thank you. No, thank you, sir. Thank you, Chief. Uh Chief Bradmoir there, Mapukek, First Nation. Uh yeah, obviously a very busy person, but and I, you know, I’ll I’ll go back to today like we’re talking about mental health. We’re talking about wildfires. Uh Dr. Jannine Hubert is here, registered psychologist. again when we people are on alert. So if it’s Mapukre Peninsula, um you’ve got folks uh to the north of of that fire as well, uh Conception Bay North, uh Patty’s Pond, you know, as everyone is living through this in different ways. Uh it can feel isolating. Uh there can be a big mix of emotions. So I’m just Yeah, let’s continue on from the chat. We were just Sure. And I think everybody is appreciating that urgency and that need to run and do things when you have to do them. So thank thank you for that uh conversation. No, we were just starting to talk about normal coping strategies that you might use. Like I know you’re someone who’s a runner. Y Well, that’s great until it’s 30 degrees and you’re choking on smoke and Yeah, it gets a lot harder. Yeah. Well, and I mean, you know, I was joking, but not joking the last couple of nights. I mean, yes, I enjoy, you know, an occasional beer on a hot day or a glass of wine after a long day. And a couple of friends and I, we were joking going, I would really like a glass of wine right now, this evening. and going, “Nope, because I might have to drive at a moment’s notice.” And again, for me, that’s that’s fine. I can joke about it, but for people who do have substance use issues or addiction issues, it really highlights um you know, the either that need to really reach out. This is not the time to be hiding it, you know, behind corners. this is the time to be reaching out for help and saying, “I am really struggling.” And either I need somebody to get me through this so that I’m not using or if you are using, making sure that you have an emergency backup plan that you’ve at least acknowledged to somebody, I’m going to need you to drive my vehicle or I’m going to need to get a ride with you or if something happens quickly, I’m going to need your help. Um, and you know, making use of the resources, but not being shy about it. This is not the time to keep it hidden. Yeah. And a lot of people will have a in recovery their support networks. Yes. And this in times like these, this is what they’re for. Reach out. Do not be alone. Reach out for that help because uh you know it’s it’s an awfully stressful time on I keep saying on edge, but it’s an awfully stressful time for everyone. So, uh your support network. So, so far my coping has turned to really cool uh bubble baths before bed and ice cream. So, you know. Yeah. Yeah, it uh and there’s people people are going to have a bit like we talk like I had actually I had ice cream the other night uh which was part of it and like going for a run like there’s there’s different things that people are going to have uh when it comes to uh um coping right what you talked about kids young kids processing um this and wildfires what like how do you and I know you’re talking to Jen White like because that great conversation with Jen on St. John’s morning show. I was like, and I obviously, you know, always like having you on the show, but I was like, gosh, I’d like to get Jannine Hubard back in, Dr. Hubard back in to to to do the hour and to kind of explore a little bit further on this. But talk to us about the kids. Yeah. Well, and I think it’s important for all of us to remember that there are various stages of coping and healing and grief and trauma that will be a long-term process here. So, we are currently in the very acute phase of things. Then there’s going to be the okay either as the alerts dissipate or people are able to go back home and see what is there and then there’s the long term because we are seeing results up to at least a year in terms of some trauma symptoms lingering um and very different for people who’ve lost you know that that’s kind of a separate category but for kids right now I totally expect you know some regressions in behavior lots of questions uh again that disrupted sleep that’s going to be happening just because the house is hot. alities are dismiss often it’s the but we’re going to lose such and such and you’re thinking okay that’s such a minute issue but that if that’s the concern for your kid either help problem solve yeah we can put that in a pot if that’s you know or we can we can make sure that that’s okay or um you know it’s uh helping them to kind of figure out how to cope pack their go bag all of those kind of things um But giving them enough information, being honest about your emotions. Um, it’s interesting. There’s a subgroup of kids kind of around that tween, like that, you know, 8 to 12 age, uh, that some of them do better finding out information about wildfires. So, becoming little experts like, oh, well, did you know it moves faster if it’s going I don’t know if it’s uphill or downhill, but like there are facts about how wildfires develop and grow and are contained. Um, that can be really reassuring. Even I did this this week learning what does out of control mean? It actually doesn’t mean the flailing hermit. Um, thank you BC Wildfire. They did a wonderful little meme and understanding of what does that mean even? Yeah. Uh, is it like so for kids like that? Is it empowering or or what is it? Yeah. Well, because the thing with wildfires, uh, like a lot of natural disasters, um, two things that are going to increase anxiety, lack of control and uncertainty. So, understanding a topic gives you a little bit of a sense of control. We’ve got uh Todd Kner on the line, clinical psychologist who teaches at the University of Victoria, uh, who was also involved with the Canadian Red Cross disaster response several years ago. Uh, Todd, thanks for coming on the program. Yeah. No problem. Thanks for having me. Yeah, I know. Especially given the the you know the time difference between here and the west uh coast. Uh can you can you talk to us a bit uh so you know Dr. Jannine Hubard is here with me, clinical psychologist. Uh I know you know what’s happening here on the east coast but uh talk to us a bit and the reason why we wanted to get in touch with you was your experiences working with Red Cross mental health and psychological support team in Manitoba a couple summers ago. Uh just g shed some light on that and what you what you’re doing and what you’ve kind of learned through it. Yeah. Well, as part of the mental health and sex social support team uh with the Red Cross, um a number of us uh were stationed in Winnipeg as uh people came in from various communities. Uh many in the north, many isolated, many with only one road in and out just like some of the communities you’re talking about there in Newfoundland. and you know almost 4,000 people displaced uh for months and months uh dispersed you know over I think 17 hotel locations and people live their lives uh and the challenges that they have uh that just get magnified and um amplified with the stress of being dislocated and worried about their pets and their family members who are still back home trying to save some things. And yeah, it was just really eye opening for me, even having been a clinical psychologist for three decades now, to see the level of chronic uh stress um that people were under. The the news here today um the clarity about some of the loss that has happened. Uh there’s a fire, it’s called the Kingston fire. Um and right now, according to uh the premier this morning, about a 100 homes are destroyed. Um and that number will be updated. How how do you help folks get to get like when you know that they’re going to be um unhoused, right, for a a while and they’re in emergency shelter type situations or with family. What do we need to think about for helping folks on treating trauma uh when it comes to something like that? Oh, excellent question. And I think it’s uh we’ve got this super superimposed um acute uh stress for being evacuated and lives and pets under threat and losing a home. And it’s all in the backdrop of a lot of uh climate grief right now, right? Like people are attuned to this even before it hits close to home. So, for example, we just uh um had friends from California who uh are now one almost a year into displacement from the Alabadena fires that raged through the Los Angeles area and they came up to visit and it’s going to be at least another year and a half before they get back into a rebuild house. And you know, the connection to each other. This is one of the things that’s so important in in these communities is uh people reach out to each other and the best of our humanity comes to the four sometimes and we can support each other and then as uh you know other guests have said this uh being able to process it in terms of understanding just the facts of the matter and um being able to uh connect with with kids connecting with parents and then um you know Canada in most jurisdictions does a decent job of bringing in um uh disaster uh support specialists whether it’s through Red Cross or provincial services um to be with people and to um help the people that are helping the people um deal with a lot of emotional toil um just by being frontline uh clerks taking their information and trying to help them figure out IDs and all of those other things that are lost in the fire. So yeah, it’s a big deal. Uh Todd uh tell me as if you don’t mind sharing this but you you went through a personal experience in 2015 in Nelson BC. Can can you tell us about it? Uh yeah um 24 families got together and spent uh three or four years finding property and building a co-housing community. Uh a lot of it was around our ideas on climate resilience and wanting to live on a small footprint and grow some of our own food. Um protect uh the forest behind us. So we had 26 acres. We built on six and and saved the rest. Right. Um the day after the last uh home was completed and the last family moved in, a huge wildfire was sparked on the ridge above us, uh we had trees candling and exploding. Um you could hear it, you could feel the heat, embers coming down, sprinkling the roofs, and for 3 weeks, um you know, kids from one month old to our elder who was 88 at the time, uh in the community, um were on evacuation alert and ready to go at a moment’s notice with one one way in and out and water bombers going overhead and yeah, it was it was interesting to be part of that experience personally and and helping our kids through it. How did uh how did everyone process that and over was it like like the factor of time plus conversations like what what was involved? Yeah, once again the the um community support, you know, it’s one thing to put sprinklers on your own house, it’s a whole another thing to be helping put sprinklers on the houses of uh elders in the community who uh can’t uh physically do that. And so the altruism is important, but being in it together and then knowing that the community supports you and, you know, for the amazing job that wild land firefighters do, uh, being able to give them support through, you know, just baking for them as they came up and down our road for three or four weeks and putting up big signs. And so the coming together is really important. And you know, as other guests have said, if there’s residual kind of stuff after, you know, several months, then maybe uh seeking out some uh psychosocial mental health support can be helpful, too. Okay. Uh Jannine, anything to chime in on there or because I’ll just before I let Todd go. Oh, absolutely. Just normalizing that right now. All of that stress and that community seeking support. I love the example that’s there. And again, we’re I mean, it’s Newfoundland and Labrador. We see that that’s one of the things that we are known for is communities, you know, rallying and supporting, but um I’m glad you’ve got the examples and I think really important as you’ve highlighted those longer term needs. Yeah, Todd Kentner, thank you so much for this. Yeah, all the best to you out there. Cheers. Our hearts are with you. Yeah, thank thanks man. Todd Kentner there, clinical psychologist, teaches at the University of Victoria. Uh so lots of insight there. Uh I’m Adam Walsh. This is the signal. Today we are talking about uh mental health in in a time of wildfires, in a time of extreme weather. Um marching through the show, we’re doing some check-ins. So folks, as you listen to us, you know, if you are in an impacted area, if there’s something you want to talk about, we’re here. 709-7227111 800-5638255. You can text us 709-327-8206. This signal@ cbc.ca. When I say impacted area, I I actually mean the whole province because it is everyone thinking about this uh and and moving and moving through it day by day together. Uh Janine Hubard, a registered psychologist, is here with me in studio. And so is uh Lola, your dog, uh who’s been snoring loudly. Looks awake now, though. Um I’m doing some panting now. So, it uh if folks are wondering what I don’t know if the mics are picking it up, but uh yeah, it’s my first time in studio with a doggy uh snoring. There you go. And I’m not taking it personally. Um I’m not taking it personally either. I didn’t even think about that side of it. Uh but you know, hey, okay, this is a quick aside and I I think, you know, in times of stress, a little bit of humor uh is okay. It’s vital. Uh last year I was picking up a pizza and uh uh someone was like, “You’re at all from the signal.” The person working there. I was like, “I am.” And I was I mean I was wearing a hat that said it. Not my name, but had the show on it. And I thought it was going to be a show compliment. It was, but he the person was like, “My dog loves your show.” And I was like, “Oh, okay.” I was like, “Thanks.” And so, you know, uh to so there’s there’s a dog here sleeping and also maybe a dog out there uh listening. Well, you know, no, I actually you rais a really vital point. Humor is so important through all of this. Um because again, that’s one of our coping styles. Um I mean, to me, it’s essential. I know it can occasionally sound a little, you know, um it depends on the joking he got. Yeah, exactly. But I mean, I think there are some vitally important things. If nothing else, I’m poking fun of even some I mean, we’ve heard people talk about, well, I evacuated and I made sure I brought a bag of carrots and I’m not sure why I thought that was important. Yeah. Um, so even just kind of joking a little bit about some of the choices that we’ve made in terms of in an initial, you know, panic, what do I think is important? What don’t I think is important? Um, you know, did you pack a hairbrush? Did you pack socks or underwear? or like what what did you include instead? Yeah. Um and that’s you know that’s the kind of stuff we can make light of because it really doesn’t have huge consequence. Exactly. Exactly. Uh we’ve got someone you know uh on the line here uh Dr. Katy Kamar, a clinical psychologist based in Toronto, the past chair of the CPA’s traumatic uh stress section. How are you doing? Thanks for coming on the show. Thank you so much for having me. I you know I because when we’re working with uh Janine here uh on the show and myself and our Lazareno were talking and and you know we got in touch with folks and your name came up so we figured we would reach out because to to complement what Dr. Hubard is saying as well uh trauma wildfires extreme weather climate disasters what do we know about how how trauma manifests uh from these things? Yes, and thank you so much for covering that very important topic and it is very devastating. One thing we know is that natural disasters can be very severe and there are also unexpected events, right? So caused by those environmental processes. So they can occur suddenly uh with little or no warning, right? And often can cause a largecale damage. So examples of natural disasters, earthquake, hurricanes, floods, tornadoes, and here of course wildfires. One thing that we want to keep in mind is that natural disasters often differ from other trauma exposures in that they are typically non-interpersonal and and they’re indiscriminate, right? They don’t discriminate. So those events can devastate communities, disrupt our daily life, routine, and it can have profound effects, right? not only on the physical environment but also on the mental health and um the emotional well-being. And so there are as we often hear and see um tremendous losses and stressors that can be caused by natural disasters from physical losses, emotional, psychological stressors and of course those uh social and financial stressors. So again moving from those destruction of homes and belongings right and essential infrastructures that you know the roads and bridges and so on physical injuries and loss of life to emotional psychological stressors right the fear and the anxiety about our personal safety the uncertainty again about the future what’s going to happen tomorrow what’s going to happen right now maybe in the next minute or the next hour and grief and mourning of course right for the loved ones community members members who have been lost. But the grief also it could be of our daily routine of our belonging of our home. Um and and of course the trauma from directly experiencing but also witnessing witnessing the disasters occurring. So and this heightened stress of caused by the displacement um and at times again did the lack of our basic needs to again that could lead to the social and financial stressors. separation from our family members, friends and community, employment impacted, disruption of our income, the host of those stressors that could lead to grief and of course have tremendous devastating uh mental health impact. So with all of that, how do we go about helping folks like or or for folks who who who need help? What are the steps then for for the the necessary help uh from the the crisis in the moment to the weeks and the months and and also and I’m thinking whether it’s uh folks in in areas that if they they’ve lost their homes um or also uh the trauma on first responders uh the down the road stuff too. Very important. You are so right. So there is always here as we know the role of the community support in recovery right community connections are essential for our recovery because they can help individuals rebuild their emotionally socially and practically and the ways community support can help is very much through emotional support. So the shared experiences can help to reduce isolation and have people process their emotions, normalize the emotions, right? Um acknowledging um the feelings um but also practical assistance, right? Providing food, water, shelter, healthcare, rebuilding assistance, but then also it helps through social connectedness, right? What are the events and and uh and community spaces that can help to res to strengthen the bonds? And of course always professional support services having access to it could be mental health professionals, counselors, clinical psychologists, crisis worker, outreach programs. When we look at those community and group interventions, we often hear that the FDA are psychological first aid. They really very much focus on stabilizing and supporting survivors in the immediate aftermath of a disaster and and normalizing the stress reactions, right? And then there’s also the skills for psychological recovery. How can we equip oursel equip ourselves with coping strategies, right? And establishing agency. How can I reestablish a sense of control? Am I chaos? How can I focus here on what I have control over here? And and learning to engage in in healthy coping uh mechanisms. So all of those become very both approaches are structured. They’re evidence informed and they help towards immediate um scalable mental health support and again always um searching for um psychological and mental health support as well. One thing we want to keep in mind is always as well the post-traumatic growth right post-traumatic growth is is the positive changes that can occur through the process of coping with trauma. uh and it does not mean the absence of distress of course but the possible areas of growth include a personal growth right my my greater belief in my own ability to face challenges um post-traumatic growth also refer to improve relationship like how can I deepen my connections with my family friends new friends community but also refer to appreciation of life gratitude from my daily experiences what are the new possibilities that I can explore in my life directions career hobbies and spiritual growth um for a new sense of meaning and purpose to all of those that we can have um have a look into. Janine, anything you want to add? I think the big message that I want to give everyone in the province around trauma is remembering that there are people who will have suffered a immense loss and be just fine. And there are those out there that maybe you know east end of St. John’s no personal impact, no like direct impact who may feel trauma responses because remembering that what we understand you don’t just have to have experienced it. It’s the potential risk or exposure to it. So as time goes on because I think there there are often people who are really continuing to feel those symptoms and saying but what do I have to complain about? I was never in like I I’m fine. I’m okay. Yeah. or even I was inconvenience for a couple of days, but I’m fine. Why am I having so much trouble letting go? So, remembering that you don’t have to have suffered the worst of the worst of the experience to experience trauma symptoms and not being worried about, oh, if I reach out, they’re going to, you know, dismiss me and say, well, you’re fine. You didn’t you didn’t lose anything. Yeah. There’s almost like a kind of guilt that can come with that that people. Oh, there’s a whole lot of guilt we can talk about for sure. But no, I just I really want to put out to people who aren’t immediately impacted that you can still experience a trauma response. Yeah. Uh Dr. Kadi Kamar, thank you so much for for uh talking about giving us some of your expertise and uh for for some of this context today on uh on trauma and and helping folks. Thank you so much for having me. Have a good day and be safe. Thank you. Uh Dr. Kati Kamkar is a clinical psychologist based in Toronto and past chair of uh the traumatic stress section for the the CPA. Uh so we’re working through right we’ve had uh we’ve we talked to uh Todd Kentner on the west coast. Uh we just had talked trauma with Dr. Comar. Um Janine Hubard uh Dr. Hubard’s with us for the full uh show and like where’s your head thinking now after those couple of conversations? What else are you thinking about? Well, it’s reminding me of uh kind of some insights and some reflection that I’ve had I had overnight as we were planning for this and you and I were speaking and it’s the yes and discussion. It’s the idea of having these conflicting emotions. It could be the I was spared and my neighbor, you know, like I feel grateful because I maybe wasn’t impacted or I was lucky and my neighbor wasn’t and the guilt that I might feel around that. But also because you are going to hear positive messages and I’m going to be sending them as well because we do know Newfoundlanders rally like we support. Listen, this place supports one another like nobody’s business. Um, and so yes, we know that things will rebuild, things will return to a new normal. And we can talk about lessons learned because we’re gonna, this is unfortunately in the same way that I know how to prepare for a hurricane or a blizzard. I’m coming out of this now with a much better appreciation of, right? This is how I prepare for wildfire season. So, we’re going to learn some lessons, all of us. But you can have the Yes, I’m grateful. Yes, I’m incredibly grateful, and I’ve said this, I’m grateful to the media. I’m grateful to the first responders. Um, you know, I’m grateful to government and I can still be worried for people who’ve lost homes. It’s the Yes, I’m grateful that everyone’s safe. There’s been no loss of life. I can be grateful for that and still be experiencing grief and mourning and anger and sadness and like it’s okay. And in fact, it’s really normal to be having both of those emotions, but it can often be really challenging when you have people giving comfort going, well, you know, but you’re okay. You know, you’re you’re safe or you know, you like all of those. And I mean, yeah, I’m feeling all kinds of privilege at the things I’ve been able to do to immediately prepare for this. And like, so it’s that yes and and that idea of having those conflicting emotions and feelings and thoughts and kind of how to deal with those and also how to talk to people who’ve been impacted without sounding, you know, that toxic positivity or, you know, like how how do you communicate those kind of mixed messages? Yeah, there’s a lesson or I think thought process around intentionality and just kind of having a having a quick think uh even for conversations and for for words of consolation or or if you’re trying to pick up you know lift someone’s spirits just you know think a little bit uh about the what you’re going to say. Um this is the signal. I’m Adam Walsh. Uh joining us on the line uh Gabriel Cannon from Cal in California, senior climate reporter and extreme weather correspondent with the Guardian. Thank you for uh making time for this call. Thank you so much for having me. Can you tell I mean I’ve got uh the list of I mean uh I’ve got the guardian open here uh for to give folks an idea about some of what you filed on uh let me see uh you know Democrats demand answers on cuts to firefighters during critical fire season. Man accused of throwing sandwich agent charged with assault. That was the random one I picked. But anyways uh uh you know obviously there’s a big old range. They hit an underwater Eden of California’s Galapagos where seals and grizzly bear uh sized bass rain. Um uh the US is woefully underprepared for wildfire season say insiders the stakes uh are life and death. So can you just uh expand a bit on on on your work and on your on your beat uh as the uh you know a senior climate reporter and extreme weather correspondent. Sure. Yeah, there there definitely is a lot of range there. Um, you’ve also caught me on the breaking news shift, so when a guy throws a sandwich, you know, you gota you got to cover it. Yeah. No, of course. Yeah. No, it’s all there. It all gets covered. Um, but yeah, primarily my focus is on extreme weather, is on these these climate events. Um, and I really cover the climate crisis as it’s unfolding. And so a lot of my work, especially based out here in the west, is looking at natural disasters through that lens of human impact of potential um for preparation for change and then of course covering the events themselves. And so that’s everything from floods to droughts to earthquakes and then of course wildfires. I’ve been uh covering wildfires since about 2017. So, I’ve gotten to see just this range um and really a change in the way that these fires have behaved and have been on on the scene for for several of the biggest blazes in the West just in the last few years. What have you seen change? It’s really come down to fire behavior. So, of course, fires have always burned in these regions. I know they’ve burned up in the regions where you guys are. Um what we’re seeing is an escalation in catastrophic fire. And so that’s the type of fire that of course scorches everything that it that it touches that leaves behind damaged landscapes. And then of course we’re seeing fires that get into communities and become urban confilrations um that are much more devastating and destructive. Um, you know, at the same time, we’re seeing conditions that are are creating more potential for ignitions and more potential for ignitions to spread rapidly once they of course ignite. So, all in all, you know, with the rising heat, we’re seeing a drying effect. Um, and then also just with the rapid escalation and the intensity and and increased frequency. um we’re seeing that draw down in resources and uh a just a a more challenging environment for our first responders. Yeah. I started the show up by like so the island I live on uh Newfoundland uh which is where the St. John’s which is where the show is out of average preip in a year is 1400 millimeters. We’ve had zero uh it looks like we’re getting some today, but up to today uh we’ve had no rain and then the first two months of the year uh we had uh half the normal the half the amount of preip is normal and uh plus like higher heat temps records broken uh all-time records broken this summer. And then like I started the show by saying the climate shift index global map uh index is five. So the the the weather the temperature in St. John’s today at least five times more likely uh that it was made by uh you know impacted by climate change. So like this is where we are. I’m talking to you in California about uh all these changes like when it comes to covering that side of the climate uh story. So we’ve got the extreme weather and then having folks, you know, the readers of the Guardian kind of understand how stuff is changing. What’s that battle and what’s that work been like for you to get the information out to get people to really understand how and why things are changing? Yeah, I mean, yeah, like you’ve mentioned, it’s just such an escalation in these conditions. Um, I think really what it comes down to is is striking that balance, right? I know so many of your guests before I came on are talking about um just trying to prepare both emotionally and um prepare families, things like that for this crisis, for these uh natural disasters. And so I think when when I’m trying to approach both bringing in maybe some of the scientific aspects, looking at the climate crisis, of course, talking about the news as it’s as it’s happening, um the the areas in which these u fires are happening and the people who are impacted. I really am trying to find that balance of of making sure that we’re not increasing the trauma if we’re not you know increasing fear um and and creating you know uh stories that that aren’t going to actually have a desired impact which is of course to help educate people to help people kind of wrap their their brains around what is happening and what they can do about it. So, I think, you know, when it comes down to it, obviously it’s important to capture the specifics and and the nuance and the context for what’s driving these fires. Um, it’s also important to capture the human story of, you know, people and communities who are coming together. Um, some of the ways that people are are either preparing or looking for resilience or or even healing um even in the midst of a really horrifying event. Um, and and I think also helping people understand that fire is a part of our lives, right? Like in especially in these landscapes that traditionally are more prime to burn, this is not something that, you know, once the fires are put out, we can sort of close the lid on it and say, “Wow, that was bad. We can move on.” you know, it’s it’s constantly kind of looking to the future to see how can we live with fire um in a more constructive way and how can we make sure that the landscapes recover in a way that if they continue to burn, they can do so in a in a safer um or at least in a more I don’t know positive way. Are you seeing governments make the right moves? I know it will depend on state and if we’re talking about the uh um the federal or the you know the federal national aspect of the United States there have been cuts federally um by the the US president but are you seeing bigger better moves for the future uh in different like in in California for example for for preparation? Yeah, I mean California has really risen to this challenge. Um, and our our state our state fire officials are some of the the best in the world in terms of getting um getting people prepared and responding to flames once they’ve erupted. Um, we are also seeing though just crunched resources. I mean, once these uh these escalating conditions create an escalating fire situation, um it really uh it can quickly change uh in a moment’s notice. And so, uh, ultimately, I think what we’re learning is that this does take a fair amount of collaboration that people at a local level, um, can be really impactful in terms of getting their own areas ready, um, making sure their own homes are ready, um, and also making sure that they’re ready to leave when, uh, when fires are coming closer. So there’s that aspect of it, but we also do require a fair amount of federal support and especially in the US where we have sort of these different jurisdictions and of course buyers don’t care about boundaries, they don’t care about borders. Um and so having that open line, having that ability to work across agencies is essential. And what we’re seeing now is sort of the the draw down of federal sources um and also federal support. And so as we see changes in this country, you know, we obviously know there are agreements um that go across borders between countries. And so there’s there’s a a concern there. there’s um internationally I know the international community is concerned about even just uh the United States shifting gears on on naming and and measuring and studying the climate crisis. So ultimately a lot of changes just in the last year. Um we’re seeing uh federal support Wayne. We’re seeing federal support for science for um for forecasting and of course then for firefighting resources um start to decline. Last question for you. What and this is kind of just me thinking of reporters uh out in the field. How do you how what have you learned about staying safe? Um, and we only have like a couple minutes left, but what what have you learned about staying safe uh when it comes to covering wildfires when you’re out there? It’s so important and it is a challenge. I mean, in that moment, you know, your situational awareness has to be at its height. Um, so I think gear is really important. Yeah, I’ve seen I’ve seen some some journalists out there that aren’t equipped to be there. So, having the right kind of clothes, having the right kind of um facial coverings, I mean, I wear goggles in the field, like you name it. Sometimes if you’re in a situation where you’re either in a damaged forest or in a damaged home, you want your head covered. Um, but it’s also, I think, making sure that you’re aware of your surroundings. So, you know, if if I’m in the back country on a fire, it can be um something that either ignition starting up again. Um it can be making sure that you’re not doing your job from a place where you’re going to get in the way of first responders and firefighters. Um and then of course covering fires in an urban landscape presents all sorts of um hazards from down power lines. um obviously water manes that are open um and then of course the destruction itself. And so on that front it’s really making sure you have the experience to hear you are in communication with your team so they know where you are. Um and then just being aware of where those firefighters are and then or you’re the the subject of your show today. Um, making sure that you are able to take time after being in that environment, after seeing the destruction and seeing sometimes death and injuries and animals, um, to really process what you’ve seen and to make sure that you as a journalist are able to get the help and support that you need. Gabriel Cannon, uh, thank you for taking time to talk to us today about your expertise, about what you’re doing, and, uh, for just giving us that insight. And I know it’s uh morning time for you too. So so much appreciated. I’m delighted to speak with you. Thanks so much. All right. Be well. Gabriel Cannon there, a journalist with the Guardian in California who covers wildfire. So if you uh you know, all you got to do is uh if you look up Gabriel, so G A B R I E L L E Canon C A N O N The Guardian, uh you can look at all of Gabrielle’s work uh covering uh the climate crisis, wildfires out of the United States. And uh Jannine Hubard’s still here obviously with me and well and so is the best doggy in the world today uh Lola who is here in studio uh snoring away uh on the uh on the floor of the studio. Great work uh Lola. Thank you Janine. Um no, excellent point and I think something we’ll continue to talk about because we’ve seen with some of our hurricanes that you know oceanfront property um while very appealing perhaps has some drawbacks. I live on the edge of a heavily forested um area. Yeah, you’re in the WOOI, the wildland urban interface. Yeah. Yeah. Um so, you know, and again, I’m quite I’m very happy. I like But it is going to get people thinking. So, that was some great commentary. Um and I think we’re going to get some good lessons learned coming from all of this. Yeah, I think so. And uh I’m just uh it as we move on now with the show today and I’m just looking at oh there’s an email uh let me see this uh we got two minutes left roughly to the show. Uh uh oh wondering hi during COVID the CPA had a national list of psychologists for each province who were willing to offer proono services for healthcare workers. Are there any proono services? Do I don’t know if you’re aware of that uh Dr. Dr. Hubard for responders offered by psychologists. Is are you aware of any anything out there these days? Um really excellent question and I’ll be curious because during the uh briefing this morning I was definitely hearing from NLHS that they have plans to offer things like um community groups things directed. So I think it’s early stages and I was joking before we starting here a little bit joking because again humor um because I was uh on APNL at the time of the Fort McMurray forcefers and we mobilized and we had this great community. It was going to be a come on in ask your questions get lots of support and we did it too early and we had more psychologists in the room than we had people uh reacting. So I think there’s good research and I think we’re going to see some really good things moving forward. Um, I think it’s probably going to be more on a provincial basis um than a national basis, but like I say, certainly psychology community is well attuned, the mental health community, and I’m hearing NLHS um I’m not aware of the specifics of their plans, but certainly we heard this morning that plans are underway. Literally one minute left before the music starts at at the end of the show. Any final thoughts for today to leave us with uh on this theme of mental health and uh processing? Reach out. Don’t be afraid to acknowledge when you’re having rough feelings. Connect. Um I think I’ve spoken more to my neighbors this week than I probably have in the past year. And that’s not a bad thing. So acknowledge it’s okay. These feelings are normal. Even if you’re not immediately impacted, but take care of yourself. If you can’t do your regular self-care, figure out some alternatives and some ways to get through this and we will get through it in one way or another. Yeah. Yeah. And if like you we mentioned before uh if you’re on social media maybe sometimes too much take a break from it you know um and take that time be to to have news is important but also having time away from it and reliable news sources. Yeah reliable news sources. Uh so CBC radio 1 cbc.ca/adell on the go with Chris Holmes this afternoon here and now with the government briefings the government briefings all of that stuff. Um speaking of breaks well first of all Dr. Janine Hubard, thank you so much for this. Thanks. And Lola, the puppy dog or the big doggy there on the floor for the whole show. Uh good job. Uh good doggy. Uh that is it for today’s show, folks. You I mentioned that that social media break and that break from the news. We’re we tomorrow we will have wildfire coverage as needed. Um, but if nothing comes up, uh, and we might have a couple updates off the top of the show, but tomorrow we’re we’re we’re taking a break for conversation and we’re we’re talking TV and movies and summer binge watching. We want something just everyone we can have a distraction hour tomorrow on the signal of something different and uh, that’s what we’re going to do. I’ll talk you about what I’ll talk about what I’ve been watching all summer long. Uh, until tomorrow. Thank you folks. Bye.
Today on the show we talk about stress, anxiety and trauma in a time of wildfires. Plus we hear updates from folks impacted by wildfires.
Guests: Registered psychologist Janine Hubbard; Chief Brad Benoit of Miawpukek First Nation; clinical psychologist Katy Kamkar; climate reporter Gabrielle Canon.
»»» Subscribe to CBC NL to watch more videos: https://www.youtube.com/c/cbcnl?sub_confirmation=1
Read our latest news and more here: https://www.cbc.ca/nl