The Mental Health Benefits of Being Around a Campfire

[Music] Welcome everyone. We’re so glad you made the choice to watch our show this evening and joining us for another episode of the Your Life Matters Show podcast with your hosts Steve Hodgson and Dr. Eric L. Davis. We ask that you please note that the information presented in this podcast is for educational andformational purposes only and does not constitute medical advice. It is essential to consult with a qualified health care professional for any medical concerns, diagnosis or treatment. This podcast is not a substitute for professional medical advice and any actions taken based on the information presented are at your own risk. We are so glad you made the choice to watch our show this evening and join us for a brand new episode of the Your Life Matters Show podcast. Let’s watch what this evening’s podcast is all about. [Music] [Music] This week’s episode is titled Crackling Calm Mental Health by Fire Light. Can sitting by a campfire really improve your mental health? In this powerful and calming episode of the Your Life Matters Show podcast, Steve Hodgson and psychotherapist Dr. Eric L. Davis dive deep into the surprising psychological and emotional benefits of being around fire light. From lowering stress and anxiety to strengthening relationships and promoting better sleep, you’ll discover how something as ancient and simple as a campfire can help us reconnect with nature, with others, and with ourselves. Whether you’ve enjoyed a late night fire pit chat or dream of peaceful moments under the stars, this episode explores the science and soul of why we’re drawn to the flame. The earliest evidence of controlled fire use dates back to at least a million years ago with findings in South Africa. These fires were crucial for survival and provided warmth, protection from predators, and a way to cook food. The campfire became a place where knowledge, traditions, and skills were passed down through generations. Stories told around the fire helped shape cultural narratives and transmit important information about survival, social norms, and beliefs. While the core function of campfires as a gathering place and source of warmth remains, modern campfires also hold cultural significance and are associated with traditions like storytelling, roasting marshmallows, and s’mores. Campfire ceremonies such as the campfire ash ceremony are often used to reinforce the sense of community and shared history. These ceremonies often involve storytelling, reflection, and the passing on of traditions. Campfires have a rich history intertwined with Native American cultures, playing a vital role in their daily lives and spiritual practices. Beyond providing warmth and a means to cook food, fire was a crucial tool for shaping their environment, managing resources, and engaging in cultural ceremonies. It had very important spiritual significance. Fire was a cleansing and purifying element in religious ceremonies and rituals, symbolizing a connection to the spiritual world. Tribes gathered around a central fire for important discussions and decision-making. The extinguishing of old fires and lighting of new ones marked the end of old cycles and the beginning of new ones, signifying renewal and transformation. Tonight’s episode will uncover the science behind fires calming effect on the brain. The powerful social bonding effect around a fire. How campfires reduce stress, anxiety, and blood pressure. How fire light supports deeper sleep and mindfulness. Health cautions. and when fires may trigger trauma. So, take a breath, imagine the crackle, and join us for a warm and enlightening conversation. Here are your hosts. Well, howdy howdy everybody, and welcome back to another new episode of the Your Life Matters Show podcast. I’m your host, Steve Hudson, and joined as always by our co-host and Deonire psychotherapist, Dr. Eric L. Davis. Dr. Davis, it’s been pretty good week, you know, so far. you know, we’re having um some good response from our listeners. Yeah. You know, subscribers are growing, the episodes are growing, and trust me, we really thank everybody out there for that. Absolutely. You know, it’s really good. And, you know, we we’re trying to do more episodes that relate to you two, that relate to everyone. Last week’s laughter episode was a good example of that. And, you know, this week, campfires is another one that I think 99% of us can relate to. maybe unless you live in the city and don’t get a chance to ever experience one. So today we’re going to bring you a topic that spreads to something deep within the human spirit. So I want you to do something for me again. I want you to close your eyes and picture this. You’re sitting by a campfire under a starry sky. You can feel the warmth of the flames. Okay? You can listen to the crackle of the wood and the way time just seems to slow down. You’re noticing how conversation seems to get more real. Your thoughts quiet down. Your stress starts to just melt away. Okay, you can open your eyes now, but I’m betting you probably didn’t want to leave that place. I know I wouldn’t. But it turns out that feeling you experience isn’t just basically in your head. That there’s real science behind that. So, in today’s episode, we’re going to explore the mental health benefits of being around the campfire, how fire light can reduce anxiety, help us sleep better, improve social bonding, mimic the effects of meditation, and so much more. From ancient rituals to backyard fire pits, this simple act of gathering around the flame has helped humans connect, heal, and feel safe for thousands of years. And tonight, we’re going to break down the research. We’re going to share some personal stories. And yes, we’re also going to talk about some of the potential risks because not everything about fire is just warm and cozy. Hey guys, I’d like to pause the show a moment and welcome our newest sponsor, Wayost Counseling. Now, Wayost services are available to anyone in the continental United States via teleconferencing at the Your Life Matter Show podcast. We are proud to have them on board as one of our sponsors. So, I ask that you sit back a moment and that you watch this quick video about their services. Let’s be real, life can feel overwhelming. Sometimes we lose our direction. And in those moments, reaching out for help isn’t weakness, it’s strength. You know, one of the most powerful things we can do for our mental health is simply to stop and ask for help. Well, look no further. Let me tell you about Waypost Counseling in Indianapolis, Indiana. Waypost was co-founded by Dr. Eric L. Davis and licensed therapist Aaron Davis. They started Wayost Counseling in 2020 because they wanted to create more than just a therapy practice. They wanted a place that truly walks alongside people through life’s hardest seasons. And they offer more than just individual therapy. They provide individual and couples therapy, problem gambling treatment, and consulting services as well. They work with adults navigating everything from ADHD to grief, addiction to life transitions. Every journey is different, but our goal is always the same to help people pause, reflect, and realign with where they want to go. It’s actually where their name, Waypost, comes from. A marker on the path. Something to help guide your next steps. And for anyone listening who’s been thinking, I don’t know where to start. This might be the moment. Therapy doesn’t have to be intimidating. At Waypost, you’ll find honesty, warmth, and a practical approach to real change. They’re here to help you find direction and walk with you every step of the way. Whether you are in Indiana or anywhere in the United States, help is just a phone call away. They treat clients in person or using video conferencing directly from your home. If you’re ready to start that journey, visit waypostcounseling.com or call Dr. Eric L. Davis at 317-77620904 or therapist Aaron Davis at 317-659179 and take the first step. Wayost Counseling is proudly certified by the Indiana FSSA Division of Mental Health and Addiction and the Indiana Coalition Against Domestic Abuse. That’s waysounseling.com. Your next chapter starts here. We’ll tap into some ancient, primal, and deeply soothing experiences. But by the end of the conversation, we hope you’ll look at campfires not just as a source of light and warmth, especially on a cool evening, but as a tool for mental clarity, emotional connection, and maybe even healing. So, grab a blanket, get some chocolate and some marshmallows, get comfy, and imagine that flickering glow of the campfire. So, let’s get into it. So, Dr. Davis, from a clinical standpoint, what makes Firelight so calming to the human brain? I think I mean that’s a deep question. I think it’s a a combination of things. I think if you think about, you know, where we come from when we’re in the womb, you know, it’s in the womb, it would be pretty quiet, you know, um, you know, uh, quiet, warm, um, etc., you know. So I think that there’s with fire there or especially with like a campfire there can be a motherly aspect. I also think that a lot of times if you think of the situations where we smell a campfire, usually, you know, I’m sure that there are some bad memories that folks have, but I think more often than not, it’s you think of making s’mores as a kid or um you know, sitting around laughing, telling jokes, campfire stories, you know, there’s uh that’s what I think of personally and I I think it just it imprints us just like anything else. But fire can be so comforting, you know. So, a lot of times, I mean, this is a little embarrassing, but you know, a lot of times screen savers for like a TV or screen, you can have a fireplace or fish tank. I love those. I use them all the time. You know, it’s funny this morning. I was eating breakfast and you know my I set my brain for the day and I started thinking about this show and I something I didn’t think of when I was researching the show was Christmas time and the old tide shows that they have where they just have the Christmas music playing and you put on your TV and there’s a fire a crackling fire sitting there and you may not even feel the warmth obviously you know through your TV unless you have it you know underneath one of those fireplaces. But, you know, it’s relaxing. You know, it when even when people are gathered and they see that on a screen, it’s just a relaxing thing to them. So, it’s obviously psychological as well as practical. Yeah. For most people. So, why is it that we can watch a fire and it reduces our anxiety and our blood pressure? I mean, what’s the science behind that? I think it has to do with when we watch something. So, we when we teach mindfulness to clients, you know, like if I’m having anxiety, for example, um about something that’s not happening right now, you know, so like mindfulness is about we’re in the here and now. You know, there are tons of possibilities, but none of them are happening right now. You know, I’m safe right now. And one of the things that we teach people to do sometimes when they’re in the midst of that is to look around and like name things that they see, but describe them also. So like, you know, black TV, white picture, you know, blue sky, what whatever it’s it’s an an attribute of whatever it is and what it is. And by doing that and by adding that extra focus, you know, because it’s if you really do it, you’re not just making something up. you’re not like you are having to look and process what you’re seeing and it makes your brain kind of jars your brain and slows things down. I think with a a campfire, you know, some of the best um ideas I’ve ever had in my life came from just sitting in silence, you know, or um you know, watching a campfire. Something and and kids don’t try this at home. Something I love as an adult is a good cigar. you know, a good cigar. Now, is that a great habit? No. But what what I like about it, the mental health aspect that is been absolutely beneficial for me are the conversations I have. if I have, you know, I’m just sitting having a cigar, chit cchatting, whatever, or if I sit down and have a cigar and just think, you know, it just for somebody like me, cuz I stay busy pretty much just about all day every day, having, you know, scheduling that time. And man, what a nice place to schedule some time. A campfire, that’s just an added bonus. That’s awesome. I’ll go tell you a little story later on um about the last experience I had with a campfire. But it’s but you’re right. I mean, you know, even sometimes I find when my friends are sitting around talking, I’m just zoning out. You know, I’m in my own head. It’s And like it said in that little introduction there, it’s almost like mimicking meditation to me. It really is. It helps bring on that meditation. And I do that a lot. I like to sit, you know, my wife being at school and soon we’ll be working. So, you know, just being alone, if the dogs don’t bark at something stupid, I actually get lost in my head a little bit. You know, I I don’t mind being Some people mind being alone. I don’t mind being alone, but especially in front of a fire, it’s so great. I mean, you know, I miss We haven’t set one here in Florida, and I’ll explain that one in a little bit, but you know, I miss being able to sit. When we were in Indiana, we had a fire pit. Yeah. And we used to use that fire pit all the time. I used to go to Lowe’s by those L logs that you just light the paper outside and would just and just sit back and with people and we would just sit sit around and just talk and have a good time. I mean, really, that’s what it was about. So, I also, it’s something I just wanted to point out. I also wonder evolutionarily, you know what I mean? Like, if you think about it, cavemen, you always see cavemen like obviously they’re cooking things over fire. They’re, you know, they’re talking. Yeah. So, it’s makes me wonder, too, like, well, maybe that’s just naturally what we’ve kind of evolved to do. Maybe there’s something to that. I’ll even go a step further. Think about the Native Americans who spiritually used the fire for all of their spiritual dances and everything else. I mean, that that’s like really really important. In fact, I I believe it’s in the opening film of this is Native American dance that was going on there. And it’s it’s something that’s really important, you know, to them. So, it probably does have something to do with it. So the light, the sound, the warmth, does that help people that are really suffering with trauma or high stress? It depends, you know. I mean, I would the first question I would ask is, you know, what is it triggering things? You know, from is fire triggering something bad? If the answer to that’s no, then I I think the same type of thing a person can set just simply set, take a deep breath, you know, feel the warmth of the fire, put a, you know, have a blanket on, sit by the fire, whatever. And if they focus just on that fire, you know, it really does it slows our brain down. And I have a lot of clients because I always recommend like, you know, meditation or prayer or what, you know, whatever that keeps somebody connected to their spiritual well-being, whatever that is. And I always tell them, you know, they’ll say, “Well, I’ve tried to meditate before and I just I can’t shut my brain off.” And what I tell them, it’s not. We will never be able to shut our brain off like that. That’s not the goal. The goal is to simply allow the thoughts to happen and kind of usher them out. something that my dad said, and I’ve always remembered this. He said he thinks of those thoughts when we’re meditating as like, you know, loud people walking into a movie theater, you know, and it and he’s like, and he’s the usher and he’s just like, “Oh, hey, excuse me. Here, let me let me, you know, just ushers them out real nice, politely. It doesn’t have to be a big thing, but it’s not about not thinking of anything.” I I don’t think that’s humanly possible, you know? It’s not for me anyway. So, I think I can I have a wife that teaches meditation, which we’ll probably have her on in a future episode on that. But I’m one I’ve tried when I had the house in Indiana, I had the studio upstairs and you know, I’d lock the cat, dogs, everybody out, okay? And I’d sit up there and just close the light. It was a small room. It was like an attic type room. And I would try to meditate. And all that kept going through my head was, “Okay, you still got to take the trash out. The lawn still has to be mowed. Okay, you still got to finish that website you were working on.” And it it’s hard. I forget it. Just turn it off. Thing is, like if if we can if we can, you know, like identify the busy thoughts, you know what I mean? like the static even if what’s cool about meditation though in my experience is when you are able to at least create you know the the slowness or that gap you start to kind of put pieces together that you know like you couldn’t see them over the static so to speak you couldn’t hear them over the static and it’s like wow you know so I think that really what what is important about a higher is it is a way to center oursel you know that’s and you know do a lot of pe I know myself I solve a lot of those problems you’re talking about at night when I’m sleeping because I can turn part of that brain off because you know it’s that sensory of just relaxation in the bedroom which is probably the same thing that’s happening with a campfire except that you have a lot of stuff that’s going to all together encompass your brain. And heck, I probably could meditate by a fire. Yeah, I I probably could if you left me outside someplace and where it was safe and stuff, I could probably easily meditate by a fire. Don’t don’t meditate too deeply and fall asleep. Yeah. Well, or too close and fall in. Okay. Either one. Another something I thought of too for anybody that’s listening, if you are considering trying meditation, you know, and whatever that looks like for you, I’m not here to tell you how to do it or any of that. But if you’re interested in looking into that, it’s really just about you can focus on anything that you need to. So if if if you focus on the fire, that’s fine. Like you’re not doing it wrong. You’re not meditating wrong if you’re looking at a fire while you’re meditating. But something that a lot of people, me included, have found extremely helpful is guided meditation because it that kind of makes it easier. I’m still focused on one thing and I’m still having to process what I’m hearing and all that. So, it’s still slowed down, but I also am I have to pay attention to somebody else. So, that makes my brain be a little quieter. Makes it a little easier sometimes. Yeah. I don’t know. Maybe that maybe some people find that harder that way. You were a business owner, too. Business owners have a real tough time shutting off their brains. Okay. It was really, really tough. So, what about like veterans, people with PTSD? Um, would Campfire really help benefit them? Like being in that kind of an environment? I I absolutely I think it could. Like I said earlier, you know, when it comes to trauma or things of that nature, you just have to make sure, you know, it keep in mind we’re talking about campfires in particular, but if a person like if part of their trauma involves fire, obviously I’m saying, okay, we don’t want to re-trigger somebody. We don’t want to retraumatize them. So, um, but no, I think absolutely because that that warmth, um, you know, and I’m sure, you know, a lot of military folks that that are friends of mine, they sat around fires with other members of the military and and have good memories about that stuff. I It sort of opens your brain up. I I really do. I I think it opens up a part of the brain that’s that’s always open. And it just as like you said there’s so much other noise that you know we’re distracted by that noise because you the human mind and nature share a complex sort of reciprocal relationship. Nature influences the human mind impacting our mental and emotional well-being while the human mind in terms shapes our perception and interaction with the natural world. Sort of symbiotic there. that this relationship encompasses both positive and negative interactions and are influenced by our physical, social, and cultural environments. So, Dr. Davis, let me ask you then, what role does nature play in all of that, too? I mean, yeah, we have campfire, but nature can actually give us some very good mental wellness. Yeah. I mean, you know, there’s a lot of um, you know, I’m I’m familiar with like grounding, you know, where you actually go barefoot and stand in the grass and, you know, the like the philosophy behind that and I think there’s something to it personally. That’s just my opinion, but I think it’s like we’re we’re reconnecting with mother earth and it’s like, you know, we’re reggrounding ourselves. Um, I think that nature is good because that is it’s a part of us. It’s, you know, that’s, you know what I’m trying to say? Like that is our natural environment and nature doesn’t ever feel cooped up or um, you know, I I don’t know about anybody else. I have bad days, but I’m never mad at nature. I mean, really, I’m never, you know, I I I just I love being outside. I love the smell of outside. You know, you got to remember I was born and raised a city boy in New York City where the only grass was being smoked. It wasn’t sitting around that that I saw growing up. But the moment I started experiencing backyards and you know, nature itself, it started becoming a little a lot different for me. And you know, it’s funny you talked about grounding and stuff. Um, here’s just a little side note. thing when we do the paranormal before we started every investigation before we stepped into someone’s house or location we always pictured ourselves grounded down to earth and we would envision a like ball around us that was protecting us and that protection saved us from anything trying to attach itself to us because as long as we stay grounded and that ball was welded into the ground, you know, into mother earth. You were protected and we always went into every investigation that way, Jan and I and probably a couple others investigators because we felt it protected us against things that were around them because and that’s Native Americans felt that way. You know, you connected with their they call it witches and stuff now. some of the stuff that you’re seeing Wiccan and witches are just reconnecting with earth, you know, and I they’re not worshiping earth as far as like you worship God or something, but they’re worshiping the planet. And I think if we all took care of the planet a little bit, we’d probably be better off as well. I wish I could argue that, but I sure can’t. So, why do you think people open up emotionally and have deeper conversations around the fire? Just friends. I think, you know, when I say intimacy, I don’t mean sexual intimacy, but I because I think, you know, a lot of intimate relationships happen or are or are born around a campfire. Um, you know, I I’m I’m sitting here trying to run through, you know, my list of friends in my head like, did I meet any of them by a camp? I I have no idea. But I’ll tell you, I’ve got a lot of good memories with them from around campfires at different people’s houses and, you know, laughing so hard we couldn’t hardly stand it. I mean, I think it’s just it adds a layer of intimacy. You know, if you think about it, you know, it’s dark, you know, it’s dim lighting. Um, and I think people just feel more open and more vulnerable. I noticed a lot of people, well at least in Indiana I noticed and even Kentucky would go down to Gatlinburg in Tennessee or Pigeon Forge. Yeah. There were one or two of them that wanted to go to the Christmas shop that was open all year and stuff, but a lot of the people I knew love to go there just to enjoy nature. Yeah. You know, you’re in the middle of the woods and stuff. You know, how many people go hiking, you know, every day? I have a friend of mine in California which I guess amongst breathing in the pollution but walks along the different hiking trails that go like a little bit up in the mountains. And this woman walks every day about an hour, an hour and a half. Yeah. It just grounds her back from, you know, she works in the finance industry, banking and stuff. It just takes her out of that and puts her back puts your brain grounded. And I guess the same thing really we can say about a beach, you know, if you’re sitting by the ocean. Yeah. I I because I can tell you that myself when we go to the Bahamas, Jen used to love to walk along the beach and pick up seashells and stuff and that just wasn’t for me. I’m like, see, I’ll be sitting right here. I can watch you as you’re going down there. But when she walked away and the beach was quiet, I would just look out at the ocean and as far as I could see from left to right, there was just beach and blue water. Yeah. And I would just sit there and I’d forget everything. Same way I do with a campfire. I would sit and forget everything and just enjoy nature. Yeah. You know, but because water and ocean and sand, that’s all nature and stuff. It it helps you forget about, you know, when I’d go on vacation, I wanted to relax from doing 80, 90 hours a week at Street Smart, you know, doing different films and everything else. You went there and you just turned it all off when you were there. It was better than, you know, going to the the shows or No, I just sat there and just relax. And same thing, almost like a meditation. Yeah, I wasn’t trying to meditate, but you’d be surprised those things just like automatically turn off. Yeah. A lot of those triggers. And I think campfires do the same thing. You just turn those triggers off. I think I read somewhere and I I have no idea where, so I’m not even going to pretend like I know where the source was, but I saw some some information somewhere. It basically it was saying that you know what do the most su here one of the one of the o most overlooked things that successful people do every day and it was they spend time in silence. Mhm. Spend a little bit of time in silence and um I mean I can see where that’s helpful because you have to let the steam roll off. You have to have some some time to just kind of let the dust settle from the day or get yourself ready for the day. You know, I if there I’ve never met a therapist that part of the treatment plan wasn’t self-care, you know, so take f I tell everybody even if even if the only time you can squeeze for yourself is five extra minutes, just get out of bed five minutes earlier and give yourself five minutes later in the day. It might make all the difference in the world. Or even for that matter, just sit in the bed for like five minutes before you get up. And you know, I think I talked about Rick Hayes and I remember his last name this time. Um, like I told you, he would say, you know, sit there in the morning, soon as you wake up, just sit there in bed and take in life, you know, that was all around you. Just feel the energy of the world upon you before you got up and before you started reading the news and dealing with having to take the dog out and all that other stuff that’s going to hit us. And that actually is a good segue into the next question. I was going to say modern life itself has you know pushed us away from all these grounding rituals. How do we get more people to realize that like you say they need to take that find five five minutes and you know I’m going to say just chill out man you know just relax during that five minutes and just allow your mind just to slow down. It’s not going to shut down but at least slow down. Yeah. I I think that you know the the reality is it’s hard to do that. You know it is people have kids running around. You know, we’ve all got jobs, we got bills to pay. I mean, you know, daily life in the world is pretty hectic when you really, you know, think about it. Like, we’re we’re kind of just running from one place to the next doing whatever all day long. And if you think about it, I mean, sometimes we’re on autopilot, too. And so, how can I work anything out if I’m, you know, if I’m on autopilot, that’s just my body saying, “Oh, yeah, just keep on going. Just keep going. we’ll think about some other steps later or you know when when you do slow down um I think you gain perspective that it just makes a lot of things possible that wouldn’t be possible if we don’t slow down you know instead of move fast and break stuff it’s you know like calm down and and think stuff or calm down and hear stuff you know you know and it’s a thing a lot of people won’t start a backyard campfire fire, you know, there’s going to be a group of people over, but it’d probably be a good idea every once in a while just to start a small fire and sit around there by yourself. Well, they those little um solo stoves now. Mhm. Yeah. You know, and those those I mean, a solo stove of any size is going to put off one heck of a fire, but even those little ones, I mean, you can feel the heat and um you know, they’re they’re awesome. So even that it that’s an investment that could be well worth the money if it adds to your mental peace. See, and I that’s why I talked about those logs at Lowe’s, the fireplace logs, I think they call them. Don’t go through all the hassle of trying to get a fire started and everything else. Yeah. You just lay that thing in the middle of your little portable fire pit. Just let the lighter light the paper on the outside. That’s all you do. and just sit back and within five minutes you got yourself a nice thing that you don’t have to take care of. It’s going to take care of itself and going to burn for three or four hours at a time, you know, and just sit back and enjoy it and have a nice quiet time, you know. I mean, some people, you know, they want to have a glass of wine if they want to, you know, they do that in a bath. It’s basically the same thing as being in a bath, private by yourself. It’s a different way to relax. Another thing you can do, this is I didn’t really think about this, but you could also just have like there have been a few times in my life when I just for whatever reason I was like I’m going to have a candlelight dinner for myself, you know, and I would grill a steak or something or whatever, make whatever, you know, whatever comfort food I wanted and, you know, light a candle or two and just sit there and just kind of, you know, sometimes I’d listen to music, but that those small pieces of time that are just for us where where we can actually, you know, where there where things are quiet enough that we can hear what’s really going on in our head. You know, I I think that’s that is one of the most irreplaceable, most indispensable time parts of therapy is just the self-care and taking time. Think about how many people you’ve heard say, you know, I got to have a vacation. I got to go. I it’s just I so burnt out and stressed up if you took that five minutes every day or even if you took 20 minutes, you know, once a week, you know, and sat out by a campfire or even like you said, just light some candles and have a quiet dinner, you know, you’ll be able to deal with the stress a little better. It’s probably better for your heart because you’re going to slow down that strong pumpingness of blood running through your veins and and brings your whole stress level down. And you know, I have too many friends that work like 70, 80, 90 hours a week. And I keep telling them, you know, take it from the wisdom of old age. I’ve seen too many people who are doing that just die young. And it’s not worth it, you know. And I’m sure if they had their chance to do it over, they would take that 5 10 minutes a day. Yeah. And just relax and chill out. Well, it’s important. I I asked an example that I use, you know, with clients a lot of times it when we’re talking about self-care or recovery or, you know, any behavioral health, mental health stuff is I’ll say, “When’s the last time you’re on a on a flight?” You know, and and oh, pretty recently. And I was like, “Did they talk, you know, did the flight attendants talk about when the mask comes down, falls from the ceiling, and you know, did do you remember what they said about a baby?” They’re like, “No.” And I said, ‘Well, they they tell you, they say, “If the mask drops, you know, what do you do?” And they’re like, “Oh, you got to put the mask on the baby.” And I said, “No, you have to put your mask on first because if you pass out, there’s not going to be anybody to put the mask on the baby.” Mhm. And it’s kind of that sort of thing where, you know, good people want to help others, but it’s important that we we keep our perspective, you know, and that and that we look out for our own emotional health and so forth. And sometimes boundaries are are a really important thing. and and just having some time to set, you know, you can call it a by yourself meeting or anything you want, but I just think that’s so important. I really do. The whole time I was researching the show, I kept thinking about an investigation that our paranormal group did and we did it in upstate New York and it was right by Niagara Falls. Now, I know it’s probably going to surprise people, but a lot of New Yorkers have never been to Niagara Falls, even though it’s in upstate New York. And I was one of them. I lived 40 years. Buffalo. Is is it Buffalo that’s on Buffalo? Right. It’s still up, but it’s up that way. But, uh, the reason we went where there were two um places we wanted to investigate. One was an old sanatorium, but one about five minutes away from that. I mean, it’s a couple miles away was this place called the Hinsdale House and another really haunted paranormal location. So, I know we drove up, Elvin and his wife drove up from Ohio and we had two other investigators from Indiana. They drove up and we all went to the falls first. You know, we spent like a day in a hotel up by the falls and then the next day we all drove to the hotel where we were going to stay overnight. But when we did the Hinsdale house, one of the thing, it’s a great beautiful old house, but big, you know, in the woods type of thing, big property, but they had this huge fire pit that was out back. And you know, when they showed us the house, they basically said, you know, there’s the wood, you know, there’s the lighters and stuff, and if you want, we’ll even start the fire for you, you know, and you can take care of it during the night. And, you know, he’s like, “Yeah, okay.” You know, that might be good. Yeah. Well, during one of the breaks, because you break like every 40 minutes, 50 minutes, we all went and sat around by the fire pit. Two hours later, we were still sitting by the fire pit and just all just so mellowed out and zoned out that you know, we had to remind ourselves that, wait a minute, we paid to investigate this place. You know, what are we doing here? So, we would um you know, go out and we’d break up in teams because the house was small. So, two people would go, three people would go in and investigate and three stayed out by the fire. And then like 40 minutes later they came out and reversed. But I remember how relaxed we felt and I mean I was already close friends with two of the investigators but all of us became so joined together there because we were all enjoying the same thing. We were sitting back. two people were taking care of the fire. And you know, all I could remember from that, I had to actually think of the name of the place. I had to go back and look it up because all I could remember was the fire pit. And if you ask my investigators, they would tell you, “Yeah, when you talk about that,” say, “Yeah, the first words be out of their mouth.” Do you remember that fire pit in the backyard? Because to us that was even better than the investigation because we all worked so hard. You know, all of us had worked so hard and it was so great to go out and just relax and it’s just sad like even if you sometimes if you do it at your own home as you would probably know, you’re still worrying about you does everybody have something to drink? You know, you you have no there nobody cared because we were all on our own. Hey, you wanted to get another Coke out of or bottle of water? You got up and got it out of your own cooler cuz no one was going to get up and get it for you. And you know, we really had a very very good time. Um, I’d love to go back and do something like that again. I mean, I really do. So, how about do you have any fire pit story you can share with our audience? Oh, man. I can tell I can tell a a somewhat funny grill story. I mean, I guess that’s barbecue charcoal grill story. I remember I was I was grilling a steak and I was just using regular charcoal brickheads that I got at the store and it was like old Weber grill, you know, like just a old school. I had the charcoal in the bottom, whatever. And I could not get it to light for whatever reason. So, I’m putting, you know, putting lighter fluid and I it’s like, man, it just won’t I’ll never forget and this isn’t funny, but it is now that I’m okay. I remember I led a match and threw it and it was just like, you know, and and it happened so fast, just a big huge fireball, you know, and and and be it just took a minute to even process what had happened. So, I’m just standing there and I was like, you know, sort of like I’m okay. I remember he feel I’m okay. And then I was on the phone and I walked into the bathroom and just died laughing because I looked in the mirror and the tips of all my eyebrows, my eyelashes, even any facial hair I had at the time was like singed and it was, you know, I thought that was funny. But but honestly, like all joking aside, I mean, I really, you know, for me, I’m just sitting here thinking, you know, like realistically, what does Campfire to me represents my parents, you know, music, um, you know, a a lot of time with family, time with friends, time alone. I mean, um, you know, I I always tell students that I I think my opinion is one of the most important parts of learning is taking the time and stepping away from it for a little bit because you have to give your brain a chance to kind of catch up, you know. Um, and a lot of times it’s like I remember when um, you know, think back to like recording an album in a studio. It’s man, I don’t know. It’s we need to come back and listen to it tomorrow with fresh ears. And we would always laugh about, you know, the producers had fresh ears, but the reality is, well, what he’s saying is it’s not like come back with a whole different perspective tomorrow and it’s going to look maybe it’s going to sound way different than it did tonight after you’ve been listening to stuff all day long. And think about it. We said that a couple episodes back where he was talking about wanting to quit a job. Wait till tomorrow. Yeah. And if you wake up tomorrow after you’ve had time to meditate and think about it, calm ahead, you know, things are going to look different in the morning. And and if they don’t, then go and quit your job. you know, I mean, that’s, you know, and I guess, you know, it’s important for people to realize that, you know, all these things will work for a lot of people and then again, they’re not going to work for certain people, especially like fires and stuff. Um, now, before I forget, if people are watching this episode, leave us a comment about your campfire experience. You know, one of your your most favorite campfire experience, because we’d love to hear it. And um you know, Michael Jackson used to I think in the back of his head caught fire from something like that on the on the commercial. Yeah, the Pepsi commercial or whatever it was. Yep. I I just thought of one, Steve. When I was in high school, for whatever reason, I was outside. We’d had a big huge bonfire the night before and I was barefoot and I walked through the ashes and I went to the hospital. I had blisters on my feet. It was I mean it was horrible. But that that’s my fire walker story. See, the only other remembrance I have of um a fire type of thing in New York City, we were on the way to band practice who was a church down there. It was Fred, my guitarist, and myself. And um we had to pass when we get off the bridge from Queens, we had to pass through the Bowery to get down to the lower village. And um we stopped at a traffic light and at was on I remember it was the Lansancy Street was the corner and in the center medium there was a big like metal can you know with a fire going on there. Um and there were couple of homeless people you know standing around it. So, one of them came over and they used to, anyone who’s been in the city probably knows this, where they come and they want to clean your windshield with that dirty rag. And it’s like, “No, don’t come touch my windshield.” You turn on your windshield wipers and stuff. No, no, no. And it’s like, you go away. Thank you. No, thank you. And he goes, “Do you want to see what I had for dinner?” And I’m like, “No.” So he turns around and starts walking towards B. Fred’s like, “Close the window and go.” I was like, “What?” He’s like, “Close the window and go.” And I was like, “We’re going through a red light. What are you insane?” Yeah. Guy comes back with it. It’s terrible, folks. I’m so sorry. I don’t know why I just thought this story. Comes back with it looked like a dog’s head or something that would a bite out. Oh, I went, needless to say, folks, I went through the red light and I said, “Okay, this was my father’s precinct that my that was a cop down there.” I was like, you know, if I get pulled over for it, all I’m going to do is explain to him why I just went through that red light. And, you know, if he doesn’t have sympathy, then I’ll pay the, you know, the fine and stuff. But, you know, we have so many different memories of fire and stuff that are great. Now, as I say, how much I loved it, you know, or not that incident, but I mean, I loved the campfires and stuff. Sadly, I can’t I can’t enjoy that anymore. Um, I have restrictive lung disease. Like, this isn’t just jewelry, you know, some nose ring that I’m wearing because the smoke just wouldn’t be good for me in my lungs, uh, my breathing. And while enjoyable, it can have a negative impact on lung health, especially for individuals like me or that have COPD, asthma, pulmonary fibrosis. The smoke from burning wood contains these fine particle matters and other pollutants that irritate the airways. It works worsens existing lung conditions and even can lead to cardiovascular issues. Now, um I know myself I have friends that lived in Westport in Indiana that live here in Ocala, Florida. I didn’t know when I moved here that they lived here until after I got here. And I put it on Facebook and they were like, “Yeah, wow. You live in Ocala? So do we. They’re Brian.” I I called them the Ryan twins, but that’s just in my head because they’re both named Brian. Uh, one was a police officer in Westport, one was a reserve officer in Westport, too. So, it’s kind of interesting. One, now the reserve officer works for dispatch. The other one, he does something with the building department here in the city of Ocala, but they meet up like every like two or three weeks. And he lives down in Silver Springs Park, like right outside the park there, which big forest and stuff. So, he has campfires all the time. and they divi come on come down hang out you know you we food and everything else and as much as I would love to go hang out in a place like that with I can’t you know both of their wives are nurses so they understand why I can’t nobody thought of it when they first invited me but um you know they understand that even the fire shifts wind so even if I sat not upwind, you know, upwind from it. I’d still get hit with it and it still wouldn’t be good for me. The the good news is you can also I mean it’s really just about focusing on something, right? You know, so you can do that with a fountain, you know, go if you got a fountain in your community, go sit by it just and make sure you you are watching everything the water does to slow your brain down, you know, and and see what happens. Try it out. See, and with those friends, we do go out, you know, we go to restaurants and stuff together and, you know, we hang out for a few hours, you know, and just talk and relax and have a good time. So, are there situations when a campfire might not be helpful? Take like what I what I think of somebody who was just in a house fire or even California that went through forest fires, you know, I’m sure that they have issues, you know, with Yeah. I mean if they you know if a person if if and there are that that’s what I was saying earlier is that that you know there are people in the world that trauma or fire is connected to their trauma you know somehow and so for those individuals you know I here’s what I would say to them I think that um I hope a day comes when you can take fire back for yourself you know where where you can take that back and where fire doesn’t represent whatever bad thing it was or where fire represents where you’re at now and you made it through that thing. Yeah. Cuz you don’t want to trigger them. No. No. Not at all. You want to retraumatize them. I mean that, you know. Yeah. You know, they’re going to start relaxing and think about the horrifying Yeah. thought and especially if it triggers somebody even like even just a screen saver or something like you know but but like I mean that that’s really what I hope. I hope at some point they’ll they will be in a place, you know, um where they can make take back what fire means. See, and there were you can get similar benefits like you say from other things like you talk about sitting around the fountain. I mean, you could use candles. Yeah. Even sitting in a room full of candles, you know, or um like you said the fireplace videos which we were talking about the old time. Or even if you wanted to too add the soundsscapes, those little recording things that will bring you in nature. Those are, you know, some people use meditation music. Yeah. When they meditate, you can also use those soundscapes of just like the birds or maybe just like the ocean waves, you know, just crashing. Closing your eyes, you just visualize, you know, the water and the ocean. And so right now I don’t even have to close my eyes and I can still see the ocean in the Bahamas. And I will go back to Bahamas. I’m coming back. I want Hey, I want to come back, too. No, it’s wild because I I definitely there have been many times in more recent years, you know, where where white noise actually helped me to concentrate better on what I was doing. would be, you know, I have attention deficit disorder, so it’s something that I just have to deal with and it’s not a death sentence. I just have to be aware of it and act accordingly. And so, typically it’ll be in an environment where like if I’m in my office and I’m working on stuff, but there are people talking outside and and it just keeps drawing my attention, you know? I I just tried one day. I was like, man, so I just turned on white noise and it I was like, this is great, you know? So, so anything that separates you from the static is a good thing. I mean, I even used to put on headphones and listen to music so I don’t get distracted by somebody else. I can put on some calmer music, you know? I mean, I’m not going to put on Azie or somebody like that, you know? I I’m going to put something that’s a little calmer and I get lost in that music, you know? That’s where Air Supply and all those bands came really in handy, you know, and you don’t hear really the stuff going on around you anymore and you can concentrate, especially when I was designing websites. Yeah. You know, I didn’t want to be distracted by things. Um, even when we do this show, I have one of my dogs out closed in the bedroom. Okay. And it’s just quiet. I won’t get distracted by him. little one walking around, but you know, it’s no big deal. As long as I don’t step on them, you know, with my feet, I’m fine. Now, there’s one other thing I want to talk about for those that are looking to reconnect with nature, and that’s wilderness therapy. Now, I I’m going to be 100% honest. I probably had an idea of this, but I never knew there was such a thing. And it says the wilderness therapy is a mental health treatment strategy for adolescence. And it’s for adolescence. I guess it could work for adults with maladaptive behaviors. Wilderness programs combine therapy with challenge experience in outdoor wilderness environments to kinetically engage clients on cognitive effective and behavioral levels. Sorry, that was what they wrote on their website. As you could tell, that’s not part of my language. web sometimes called outdoor behavioral healthcare. Wilderness therapy is designed to address problem behaviors by fostering personal and social responsibility and the emotional growth of their clients. The goal of the wilderness therapy provides therapeutic assessment, intervention, treatment of problem behaviors, stability and lasting change. Now, I I could keep reading about that, but I I mean, does that work? So, yes. Yes, it absolutely can work. I’ve worked with clients throughout the years, you know, that heck, probably it’s more than 10 clients that I can think of that that have been to something like that and really gotten a lot out of it. The problem is, and this is what I’ll say about that, is there something to being in a, you know, like either a beautiful environment or an environment different from where the problems typically take place? Absolutely. You know, that it it’s hard to treat somebody’s trauma when they’re in a place where they’re just being there is traumatic. So, it taking a person out of the environment and really being able to focus on those things, work on life skills, etc. But there’s also a lot of controversy. So, a lot of the things that we see out now, you know, on YouTube or Prime or whatever, you know, a lot of them, there are a lot of like documentaries and we’re starting to hear, well, this place was kind of like a outdoor therapy and they were awful and they were being, you know, so what I would say about those is yes, they can work. I highly recommend check the credentials of the person, not the not the person I want to know. I want I would want to know the credentials of the individual that is going to be interacting directly with the patient. If they’re not a licensed clinician, if they are just, you know, like and mad love and respect to everybody in the world, like if someone’s good at outdoors stuff, awesome. But leave the leave the trauma stuff to the the therapist, you know? I it it makes me wonder. Uh there was a um there’s a group of people on YouTube who I’m still trying to get in touch with. I haven’t got an answer from. Uh but it’s called the Blessing Boys. And this gentleman goes out. He’s he’s a landscaper you during the week. Owns a landscaping business. And he goes out one or two days a week with his kids. And he’s got one, two, three, four boys. and they go out and they go cut someone’s lawn for free, you know. So, I mean, really some places that the grass is taller than the husband is, you know, I mean, that that’s how tall it is. But they’ll clean and they’ll fix the whole place up for nothing. And they do it the blessing boys. It’s based on religious, you know, belief about giving. I have seen that. I have seen that. Yeah. But the great thing that I look at that and in reference to this and what we’re talking about will stuff, I think if a lot more parents went out and did stuff with their kids as a family thing because that’s really I I mean, correct me if I’m wrong, but this wilderness therapy is more like let’s get out and do something as a group and, you know, and let them work amongst amongst a group of people and accomplish stuff to, you know, to better their You know, but you could do that every week if you when you’re growing up. If you even once a month, you know, the I know people are busy, so I’ll go to once a month where you just go out with your kids and do something. Yeah. You know, I know my parents, my dad used to take us and even my aunt um used to take you to Central Park in New York and we used to call it mountain climbing because when you were five, six years old, those rocks were like climbing mountains. Okay. I still remember it to this very day of mountain climbing. We used to call my aunt and uncle used to take me or my dad used to take but it was to go out and you did something with your family. You went with your brother and I have an older brother and I still do. We’re going to think sound like he’s dead. Um but you know we go out and you do stuff with family. I mean that’s got to help from even a mental you know a mental health way. It’s got to help better not only the family relationship but interacting with the outdoors. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I I mean there, you know, it’s like a good rule of thumb or, you know, I didn’t come up with this, but it’s like there’s no medicine like a good night of sleep. Mhm. You know, or there’s no, you know, there’s no um basically just talking about that that separation, you know, the think of it this way. It’s it’s finding the difference between responding to things and reacting to things. The only difference between reacting and responding is the amount of time really, you know. Well, I’ve seen so many kids, my brother, I’m going to use as an example, every year they’d go to the same place. They go to Lancaster, Pennsylvania, okay, to go to Amish country, okay? Okay. And he would drive up there and they’d spend four or five days going to the same places they go to every year. It’s little amusement park and stuff. I I find the humorous and I laugh. I lived right outside of Lancaster. I lived in a town called Coryville. And um not much there. Okay. In Lancaster. And I I still joke with, you know, my niece and nephew about it because it’s, you know, I was like, “Hey, you want to go to Pennsylvania?” And they’re like, “No.” Yeah. But you know what? They always did fun stuff together as a as a family. It helps with interactions with people. It helps them reconnect with nature and socialize is a huge benefit. Yeah. Just being out and about. I mean, it, you know, you’re you’re helping kids socialize. you’re, you know, there’s just make sure you’re taking time for you, right? So, I’m going to to end up with three more generalized questions that I like to ask. So, should people avoid talking when around the campfire with friends? Should they avoid it? Absolutely not. No. No. I think you know there you can turn a boring time into a fun time simply by adding a a fire. I mean there you know really it just changes. There probably are some things you should avoid talking about very politics. Oh. Oh things. Sorry I thought you said should I say it wrong but yeah shouldn’t avoid sitting around a campfire. Yeah. Yeah. I mean honestly, you know, politics, religion, you know, things that you know, if differences of opinion are always fine, but but if if you can’t, you know, if you can’t have a a a mature dialogue about a difference of opinion, then you know that. So I think those sorts of things, you know, I I I always say religion, politics, you know, and if you got a question on this, go back to the very first episode, I think we did of the Your Life Matter Show podcast was about politics. Yeah. Things not to talk about and follow that and take that advice with you going to um sit around the campfire. Yeah, those are things you should just avoid and just not even even if everybody agrees with you, leave all that behind. You know, you don’t need that. Now, what’s a what’s a good way to get children or teens to enjoy some quiet time around the campfire? I I think the easiest way is to get some graham crackers, some chocolate, and some marshmallows. I mean, honestly, like, you know, um you know, I I have a a little fire pit and and I, you know, it’s been really hot lately, but um you know, when kids come over, it’s I mean, that’s something that they always enjoy doing. You know, it’s like, “Oh, let’s make some s’mores. Here, I’ll help you. I’ll teach you how to make s’mores.” I mean, that is I don’t know. I don’t think it gets a whole lot better than that, honestly. I think that’s a cool thing. And it allows them to open up a little bit too because as they start to get into that they may, oh come on, go sit around the boring campfire with a bunch of old people, you know, cuz that’s really what they’re looking at. But if they’re sitting around the campfire making s’mores roasting marshmallows, you know, everybody’s just happy and, you know, they’re not talking adult stuff, you know, they’re they’re talking like normal people and everybody’s not lecturing, you know, we’re having a good time. That’s so important for teens cuz that lets the teens unwind a little bit as well. So, the last question I’m going to ask, what would you say to someone right now who’s listening who’s feeling disconnected, maybe overwhelmed, and may need a night by the fire just to reset, you know, do it. I mean, seriously, I I think that, you know, it’s not about it. What I’m saying is setting by that fire is not about solving all the world’s problems. It’s not about, you know, everything’s going to be perfect. It’s about sometimes life gets really staticky and there’s a lot going on. It’s almost like, you know, just a big mess. It’s like a big knot. I always talk about that. It’s like, you know, clients come in with a it’s like a knot of problems and then we talk about it. We figure out, well, here’s how we start untying that knot. You kind of have to have a strategy or know what you’re dealing with. And sitting, you know, quietly, taking some time for you, um, just contemplating things can make a huge difference. And ideally, you may even come out of a little bit of quiet time with an answer. you know, I’ve I’ve had that happen sometimes where it’s like, wow, I that thought never crossed my mind. I’m going to do that, you know, and so I think it’s it’s listening for answers from, you know, ourself, the world. It’s just taking the time for us to be perceptive to what we are thinking and feeling. And you have to have a clear mind to be able to do that. tweet our we had a guest Bill Bean on the show, you know, and he talks about, you know, how he just hears, you know, voices or not that he has voices. It sounds like he needs to go see Dr. Davis, but I mean, you know, he’s guided, I should say. He hears the guiding voices, you know, by just stopping and just forgetting everything that’s going on around you and just, you know, meditating to himself for a minute or two. And you hear that, you know, it’s may even be your own mind and we’ll leave it at that way. It’s your own mind, but your mind is just, you know, telling you what you knew all along. There’s just so much distractions from it, you just don’t hear it, you know. So, it’s an important thing, you know, and it’s kind of poetic, too. Something as simple and ancient as a fire can teach us so much about ourselves. We often look for healing in most complex places. Sorry, nothing personal there, but sometimes the remedy is just slowing down, standing still, just being in the present, whether it’s with ourselves or whether it’s with others. In a world that feels louder and faster every day and more complex every day, a quiet moment by a fire can be grounding in a way that’s hard to describe. It’s primal, peaceful, reminds us we’re human, and that we’re not alone. Now, whether you’re camping deep in the woods or just lighting a fire pit in your backyard, those flames can be an invitation to breathe, connect, and heal. So tonight, if you get a chance, light a fire, invite a friend over, or just sit with your own thoughts and let the glow do its magic. Your mental health might thank you more than you know. And remember, if you’ve been struggling lately, if joys feel really distant, please remember, you’re not alone. There’s help, there’s hope, and sometimes it starts with relaxation, resting, clearing your mind, and spending time with family and friends. Now, please, if you enjoyed the show, don’t forget to like and subscribe and share this episode with someone who might need to hear it. Think about maybe, you know, your friends that they’re thinking of something to do, you know, and you guys been talking about, you know, we need to get together and do something. Share the show with like realize, you know, fire log. Yeah, exactly. You know that. And as I say, even go to a place like Gatenburg or so, rent the cabin for a couple of days and reconnect with nature. You just sit and enjoy each other. And as I say, don’t forget to like and subscribe. You know, it only takes a few minutes and it really helps the channel. And I was serious when I say comment about your stories about campfires and time spent with your loved ones. We love to truly read the stories. And don’t forget, you can visit our website atyoulife matterspodcast.com for more information about our shows and ways to contact us if needed. And if you’re looking for links to Dr. Davis’s, you know, site and um the Way Post Counseling, our, you know, our sponsor, all those links are right there in our description, too. So, you know, we both truly appreciate you joining us and we hope that you’ll come back next week for the Your Life Matter Show podcast where we’ll continue exploring the stories and strategies to help us live with more purpose, clarity, and compassion. And remember, on this podcast, we just don’t talk about mental health. We celebrate the strength it takes to face it. Stay strong, stay hopeful, and take care of your mind and protect your peace. Stay safe and grounded and stay lit in the most calming way possible. Please remember healing can start with a little spark. Okay, there’s my yoga for the day. So, never forget. You know what? I’m going to I’m going to stop time for a minute. Say, I acknowledge that was not lost on me. I thought that was great. Well, I I hope other people pick that up, too. Never forget your story matters, your struggles matter, and above all, your life matters. God bless you all. We hope to see you next week. Yeah. Thanks everybody. Thank you for joining us for this week’s new episode of the Your Life Matter Show podcast. Please be sure to join us again next week for another great episode with your host Steve Hodgegson and psychotherapist Dr. Eric L. Davis. Please remember to subscribe to our channel if you have not already done so and hit the like button if you enjoyed this episode. Your help with this helps us reach a wider audience that may need our help. Remember, no matter where you are in your journey, you are valuable and important. Take time to cherish yourself and those around you. Never forget, your life matters.

Can sitting by a campfire really improve your mental health?

In this powerful and calming episode of The Your Life Matters Show Podcast, Steve Hodgson and Dr. Eric L. Davis dive deep into the surprising psychological and emotional benefits of being around firelight.

From lowering stress and anxiety to strengthening relationships and promoting better sleep, you’ll discover how something as ancient and simple as a campfire can help us reconnect — with nature, with others, and with ourselves.

Whether you’ve enjoyed a late-night fire pit chat or dream of peaceful moments under the stars, this episode explores the science and soul of why we’re drawn to the flame.

In this episode:
🔥 The science behind fire’s calming effect on the brain
🧠 How campfires reduce stress, anxiety, and blood pressure
👥 The powerful social bonding effect around a fire
🌙 How firelight supports deeper sleep and mindfulness
⚠️ Health cautions and when fires may trigger trauma

Take a breath, imagine the crackle, and join us for a warm and enlightening conversation.

Subscribe for more episodes on mental health, healing, and human connection.

Your life matters. Your peace of mind matters.

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• Website: www.YourLifeMattersPodcast.com
• Dr Davis’ Website: https://www.waypostcounseling.com/

💬 Drop a comment: Tell us what your favorite campfire experience was

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