Dr. Jonathan Haidt: How Smartphones & Social Media Impact Mental Health & the Realistic Solutions
In this episode, my guest is Dr. Jonathan Haidt, Ph.D., professor of social psychology at New York University and bestselling author on how technology and culture impact the psychology and health of kids, teens, and adults. We discuss the dramatic rise of suicide, depression, and anxiety as a result of replacing a play-based childhood with smartphones, social media, and video games.
He explains how a screen-filled childhood leads to challenges in psychological development that negatively impact learning, resilience, identity, cooperation, and conflict resolution — all of which are crucial skills for future adult relationships and career success. We also discuss how phones and social media impact boys and girls differently and the underlying neurobiological mechanisms of how smartphones alter basic brain plasticity and function.
Dr. Haidt explains his four recommendations for healthier smartphone use in kids, and we discuss how to restore childhood independence and play in the current generation.
This is an important topic for everyone, young or old, parents and teachers, students and families, to be aware of in order to understand the potential mental health toll of smartphone use and to apply tools to foster skill-building and reestablish healthy norms for our kids.
Access the full show notes, including referenced articles, books, people mentioned, and additional resources: https://www.hubermanlab.com/episode/dr-jonathan-haidt-how-smartphones-social-media-impact-mental-health-the-realistic-solutions
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Timestamps
00:00:00 Dr. Jonathan Haidt
00:02:01 Sponsors: Helix Sleep, AeroPress & Joovv
00:06:23 Great Rewiring of Childhood: Technology, Smartphones & Social Media
00:12:48 Mental Health Trends: Boys, Girls & Smartphones
00:16:26 Smartphone Usage, Play-Based to Phone-Based Childhood
00:20:40 The Tragedy of Losing Play-Based Childhood
00:28:13 Sponsor: AG1
00:30:02 Girls vs. Boys, Interests & Trapping Kids
00:37:31 “Effectance,” Systems & Relationships, Animals
00:41:47 Boys Sexual Development, Dopamine Reinforcement & Pornography
00:49:19 Boys, Courtship, Chivalry & Technology; Gen Z Development
00:55:24 Play & Low-Stakes Mistakes, Video Games & Social Media, Conflict Resolution
00:59:48 Sponsor: LMNT
01:01:23 Social Media, Trolls, Performance
01:06:47 Dynamic Subordination, Hierarchy, Boys
01:10:15 Girls & Perfectionism, Social Media & Performance
01:14:00 Phone-Based Childhood & Brain Development, Critical Periods
01:21:15 Puberty & Sensitive Periods, Culture & Identity
01:23:55 Brain Development & Puberty; Identity; Social Media, Learning & Reward
01:33:37 Tool: 4 Recommendations for Smartphone Use in Kids
01:41:48 Changing Childhood Norms, Policies & Legislature
01:49:13 Summer Camp, Team Sports, Religion, Music
01:54:36 Boredom, Addiction & Smartphones; Tool: “Awe Walks”
02:03:14 Casino Analogy & Ceding Childhood; Social Media Content
02:09:33 Adult Behavior; Tool: Meals & Phones
02:11:45 Regaining Childhood Independence; Tool: Family Groups & Phones
02:16:09 Screens & Future Optimism, Collective Action, KOSA Bill
02:24:52 Zero-Cost Support, Spotify & Apple Reviews, YouTube Feedback, Social Media, Neural Network Newsletter
#HubermanLab #MentalHealth
Disclaimer: https://www.hubermanlab.com/disclaimer
44 Comments
THIS IS NONSENSE! I AM GEN X, THERE WERE NO SMARTPHONES DURING MY CHILDHOOD AND I STILL HAVE SEVERE ANXIETY, AMONG OTHER THINGS BECAUSE OF MY CRAPPY CHILDHOOD- IN ADDITION TO THE MISERIES AT HOME, I WAS ALWAYS BEING PICKED ON BY OTHER KIDS AT SCHOOL AND IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD- SO, WHAT THE HELL WAS SO GREAT ABOUT GOING OUTSIDE TO PLAY?!
PEOPLE NEVER WANNA TALK ABOUT THE REAL REASONS PEOPLE HAVE ANXIETY, DEPRESSION, ETC., ITS BECAUSE MOST OF US WERE RAISED BY TOXIC PARENTS/FAMILIES/TEACHERS WHO SCREWED US UP FOR LIFE, AND GET AWAY WITH IT. STOP MAKING UP AGENDAS TO SELL BOOKS. AND KIDS SHOULD HAVE ACCESS TO A PHONE IN SCHOOL, JUST IN CASE SOMEONE TRIES TO TOUCH THEM IN AN INAPPROPRIATE WAY, IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN. YES I'M USING ALL CAPS CAUSE THIS NONSENSE IS IRRITATING ME!
Luigi bought me here.
whos here to support "luigi mangione"?
My good friend Luigi sent me
Watching cos Luigi🥰 retweeted
6:22
Free Luigi
These problems are very real but even for the developed world I think the problem is largely exasperated in America. Couple reasons: Car culture, we spend hours in our car and not in social settings, All these companies are american based, so more americans use the app, Urrban infrastructure, in europe you see kids of all ages taking the train and bus everywhere around cities, in america lack of public trans and everything being so spread out negates that kind of movement subsequently less social gatherings.
The gender roles imposed in the interviewed guy are innacurate and annoying
luigi
estrogen is for women you dummy……hence why men cant drink soymilk
Hey Andrew, how's the chivalry thing that your father taught you goes with dating multiple women and lying to them?
See Lightphone 3. Shipping next year
Here because Luigi Mangione recommend this, thank you Luigi you'll never be forget ❤❤
Left at the ads to have a look through the phone
My daughter is 12, constantly asking for a phone and I have said no but considered giving her a phone at 14 after watching this I’m going to be reconsidering. She does feel left out but I see the effects on her friends and how much they are consumed by it, I rather her feel a bit left out than a life full of anxiety, depression, needing constant validation or access to strangers.
Duh…..This shouldn't be a surprise
I would like to see a podcast on the effect of mobile technology & the IoT (smart watches especially) on the mental, social, psychological and physical (i.e. radiation,) wellbeing of adults! the pros and the cons. Thank you
I like this video but it puts me off when they say they don’t know much about women and i love the analogy of gambling with phone addiction and doom scrolling
Social media ! I was born in 02! I was born into tech! We were taught it was for good! For education! It was made for education. But now it isn’t. It sadly needs to be banned. Social media is our identity! Us people don’t know the difference. And I love how you speak about women. Because women act in emotions . We act in dopamine. Even me as 02 us girls were more prone to online! Why? Because we needed to prove our self. And if you look into the 90s /80s feminist act. You’ll see what they were trying to push but clearly couldn’t…
Look into feminism. 90s/w
2000s And social media
I’m so grateful that when I was a teen one of the most interesting things to do was read the tv guide. Seriously 😅
I stopped using social media more than 15 years ago and before that I barely used it. I noticed that people don't even bother contacting me anymore because I am "offline". This insidious system has made it so you are an outsider or ironically, "antisocial", if you don't use social media.
And people wonder why a lot of us don't want children. There is no opportunity for a fullfilling future for kids these days.
dum
Luigi
Fascinating!!!!
❤
This is amazing conversation every parent needs to listen to
😊From Luigi
"I fear the day when the technology overlaps with our humanity. The world will only have a generation of idiots." Albert Einstein
So was this Brian kid drugged?
What is this Dalmer movie about?
Great episode. I'm a parent of young kids. I often see parents using the tablet as a babysitter for very young kids in the supermarket. Breaks my heart . These kids are missing out on real life. Some parents have unreasonable expectations of their kids. You won't have a peaceful restaurant dinner with a 2 year old. Parenting is hard. Phones are not good band aids.
I've been an inventor, designer, manufacturer, and marketer of technical tools for more than 50-years, and a technologist since I was very young. I've owned an internet based corporation for more than 24-years, but I would never own a "highly beguiling, totally programmable, hand-held, fully addictive, Pavlovian device" known as a smart-phone, I own a flip-phone! In all of my life, I've never seen a technological device so readily and rapidly adopted by humans across the planet. I predict in the future; anthropologists and sociologists will point at Steve Jobs as the inventor of a device that instantly addicts and robs people of the only unique feature that separates us from all other creatures on this planet. We humans, exclusively have the ability to conjure within our minds eye and ear, something that has never existed before, an idea! This intangible idea can then be transformed into a tangible entity through the use of our opposable thumbs and appropriate tools. This tangible entity can manifest itself in: music, art, literature, engineering, science, architecture, construction, social remediation, ad infinitum. Destroy your smart-phone and prevent it from addicting you, and robbing another human, and purchase a dumb-phone for under $50.00. By doing this, you will discover why you are truly on this planet to begin with, creating ideas, and turning those ideas into actions. Stop wasting your precious life-force looking at your smart-phone! David Riddle
Adv😊
23:26 Who was doing that crime? Maybe Ns?!
Thank you so much. I can totally relate to this. Me and my sister have trouble socializing with others. I get better now and I think it is due to lack of frequency of play-based experiences.
Education of online HARMS has to be a class in all schools across the board and around the globe. More so than sexual education.
This is a current discussion in my psychology class. Very interesting points made in this. Love the content as well!
I just caught my 14 yr old with an iPad watching videos at 1 in the morning. We usually take away his iPad before bedtime. And he’s been sneaking it for a month. He doesn’t even have an iPhone. So upset that he’s been sneaking. Now he is grounded for a month.
From London, I’ve seen on my street that even though we have a park around the corner, the parents only allow kids to play outside the house. Parents would let them go further afield but they are scared to let them because of all the youth gangs these days. Now I’m 40 I remember taking my BMX Bike when I was around 10 years old to the BMX track with my buddies and I think how much we’ve failed these kids.😢😢😢😢 it’s our fault, and we have time to step in and fix it
1:13:00 Jocko is the new Chuck Norris
Psychedelics are just an exceptional mental health breakthrough. It's quite fascinating how effective they are against Suicidal, depression and anxiety. Saved my life.
I remember when I heard about Facebook. This is kind of strange because I heard about this at a staff event of a Christian boys camp summer in 2005. Ironically, when I was a counselor at this same camp for two summers those were the best summers and times of my life. Phones were only used by counselors at night when kids were asleep. This was flip phone generation. I felt most alive there and without a phone…
I can't stop smiling. First of all, as a retired psychologist with two young granddaughters, aged 3 and 6, your conversation has assuaged my concerns that my granddaughters might end up being the proverbial 'only ones without a phone' by the time they get to middle school. Moreover, as someone who thoroughly enjoyed studying both social and neuro psych in university (I became an educational psychologist), it was lovely to see and hear the camaraderie between you both and to hear you discuss this important journey into improving the lives of our youth – and their parents and teachers as well – going forward in the developed world. May those countries coming up behind us find a way to avoid this chapter all together!